The Allplane Podcast #51 - helicopters as a service, with Frédéric Aguettant (Helipass)

Frédéric Aguettant is the founder of Helipass, a digital platform, based in France and operating worldwide, that lets people book helicopter rides at the tip of a click.

The helicopter operator business is very local and extremely fragmented, so when Frédéric tried to book helicopter rides at various places around the world, he found the process extremely messy and frustrating. This led him to think of the idea of creating a sort of “AirBnB of helicopters” by capitalizing as well on this prior experience in the helicopter industry.

Since it launched in 2014, Helipass has intermediated more than 67,000 helicopter rides and, despite a temporary blip in demand due to the pandemic, it has set its sights in future areas of growth.

Helipass has, thus, become a partner of the advanced air mobility research hub being developed by the region of Paris right outside the French capital and it has also signed a deal with Embraer’s eVTOL arm, EVE, to commercialize flight hours on this platform as soon as it becomes available towards 2026.

Tune to this episode for Fréderic’s insights about air mobility, the unique characteristics of the helicopter ride market and the fascinating entrepreneurial story of Helipass!

Download this episode from:

Apple Podcasts / iTunes, Spotify, Google Podcasts or Stitcher

Things we talk about in this episode:

  • Frédéric’s background in the helicopter industry & how he founded Helipass

  • The dynamics of the helicopter ride industry - what are the use cases?

  • What is Helipass and how and where it operates

  • The advanced air mobility research hub in Paris

  • How eVTOLs are going to shape the air mobility and helicopter industries

  • How Helipass is preparing for the eVTOL era

Interview transcript

Hello,

and welcome to the Allplane podcast 

Where we talk with interesting people that are redefining the future of commercial aviation

But first of all, and before I introduce today’s guest, let me remind you that you can find all the previous episodes of this podcast as well as many other aviation stories on our website: allplane.tv - allplane.tv

Today we return to the world of helicopters. This is a topic we have covered earlier in this podcast (check out for example one of the very first episodes with Charlotte Pedersen, a former Royal Danish Air Force Sea King pilot that has later made a career in executive aviation) and one that links to advanced air mobility, which is another area of interest of our guest today.

Fréderic Aguettant is the founder and CEO  of Helipass, a French company that makes it possible to book helicopter rides worldwide, with the same ease with which you would book a regular airplane ticket.

Fréderic has long been working in the helicopter industry but has also an eye on the emerging eVTOL scene. In fact, Helipass is active in several initiatives in this field. 

It is participating in the new Paris air mobility hub that is being set up at Pontoise airport near the French capital and has also partnered recently with EVE, the eVTOL arm of Embraer, to commercialize eVTOL rides the moment EVE’s first aircraft becomes available to the public.

But perhaps best to hear about all of this directly from Fréderic. Let’s welcome him to the podcast!

Hello, Fréderic, how are you?

Very well. Thank you, Miquel,

Thank you very much for joining us today to discuss Helipass and the story of the company you founded. And also some very interesting projects you have in advanced or mobility. But I think first of all, it would be great if you could give us a short introduction about who you are, and your background in the world of aviation and business. 

Okay, with pleasure. I'm Frederick Aguettant. I live in France, I found the past seven years ago with the idea to digitalize the helicopter market. I started this with a world tour during my studies for Airbus. It was named Aerospatiale in the past and I worked for them for one year, all over the world, in all their subsidiaries, to make a market study about the spare parts (market), and I fell in love with helicopters. 

So it was Aerospatiale, which became part of what later became Airbus Helicopters...

Yeah, now the new name is Airbus Helicopters. It changed from Aerospatiale, to Eurocopter and Airbus Helicopters. So I know this market, I saw lots of operators, also subsidiaries. And it was really great. So I developed a business, a family business in helicopters, with my father, who was not into helicopters at the origin. But we tried to develop something together. And we founded a helicopter company and we grew like that. And, after that,  I decided to develop my own businesses, with a helicopter and jet company and was also a distributor of Bombardier jets for their program Flexjet, the fractional ownership. So I work in this space for a long time. 

Were you then an operator?

I'm not anymore an operator

You created Helipass in 2014, I think

Exactly

And Helipass, if I understood correctly, is a sort of a platform, a marketplace, where you basically commercialize helicopter rides for operators, right?

Exactly

Some120 helicopter operators from around the world... 

Yeah, yeah. 

...That I can find customers through your platform. And if you are looking to hire a helicopter ride, you can come to Helipass you can book a helicopter ride exactly as you would with a flight in. 

Yeah, the idea first was to develop the sightseeing markets. It's a huge market. It's around 6 million passengers per year who are flying all around the world. But each company's selling his own destination. And what I understood is that it was really difficult, when I started to try to book a tour when I was in New York, so I asked the concierge of the hotel. And so he put me in relation with the helicopter company. And for next door in Dubai. I tried also to ask the concierge to see what's on the internet. And at the end I said, “Okay, I'm a traveler, like a lot of people, I want to do experiences in the destination, how can I manage my trip?” And the idea is to say, “Okay, we open a platform we sell and also we book” that is very important, I mean, if you call you can buy something on the phone or you go directly to the heliport and buy it, but you don't have the payment, the invoice...you can't book your exact date, our number of passengers and everything. What is very common for airlines, trains, this is common for you and for me, but in the helicopter there is nothing like that. Some of them can sell on the web when you can't book on the web. So I said okay, it's time to do something very seamless to start with one offer in Paris. So we started a contract with an operator and we said “okay, we will manage all the flights for you. We manage the payment, we manage the booking, the operation also, we help with the operation. And we design the tour also, because they have no activities in Paris. So we do that directly on our website”. Secondly, with a lot of distributors, we disrupt the market with Viator, Getyourguide. And after we had a great chance to sign with Airbnb, for example, because Airbnb is selling places, rooms, villas, and after he said, “Okay, what can I do more, experiences?” Okay. Yeah. So I called them, when I found Airbnb experiences. And they said, Okay, let's go for it. It's wonderful that we do that in Paris, and after all over France, and Europe and abroad. So we talked to a lot of operators, they like this idea to sell their tool from other partners. And for them, it's really easy and seamless. I mean, they're receiving their email, and they have a back office, they receive all the information, they just do the ride, the payment is done, the name of the people is done. We have a lot of things like weight of the passenger for the balance sheet for the helicopter, and we give all the information to the customer. And we give all the information to the operator. So for them, it's easy. They don't need to sell, to have phones, to spend time and waste time and money on this market. They just wait and catch the reservation.

Yeah, that's the beauty of marketplaces, of digital marketplaces...all that local demand. So it was a very, very local, local market that you took on and you provided a unique gateway to demand on a global basis.

Yeah, we are kind of booking.com for the helicopter world.

So you started in 2014 with this business. You said, I think, on your website, that you have carried 67,000 people so far. 

Yeah. Yeah. 

And you have provided access to 40,000 points, theoretically, that can be reached on helicopter. 

Right. Yeah. Yeah. 

You mentioned the tour, the tour market? Are you also active in other segments of the business like helicopter shuttles?

Exactly. After the tours, we had a special experience. Because we want to disrupt this market and said, “Okay, let's, let's go to, to launch something else”. So we invented Uber-copter. We went to see you Uber in France, and said, “Okay, we want to do something with you”. They liked the idea. So we did that in the South of France, during 10 days. And it was really wonderful. I mean, we contracted with the operators locally, and said, we try to do something, we take the risk of the passenger seats, and we buy by helicopter, but we sell by passenger seats. So we take the risk. We put that online with uber, directly on the web platform.

When you say you take the risk you mean you you money risk, you bought a number of spaces in advance in the helicopter?

I bought all the flights and I then sell all seats in the flight. Okay, I mean, normally when you come to the South of France and want a trip between Nice and Cannes during the movie festival. Okay, so between these and can you pay 500 euros? And you have three seats on boards? So you say, “Okay, I'm alone. I don't want to pay 500 euros?”. So I took the risk, the operators didn't want to take the risk, the money risk. So we take the risk directly to sell seats. So we put a price. We put that online directly on the Uber app. That means there was Uber-X, Uber green and Uber-copter, okay, and when you arrive at Nice airport, you can book your Uber-copter there directly online, like Uber “clack, clack”, and it's done! and we do the interface between Uber and the operator. 

And that was promoted by Uber? 

Yes, directly by Uber and by ourselves also

Okay, and that was 10 days because it was the period for the festival, the cinema festival team. 

Yeah, yeah. 

Okay. And did this continue later on or? 

Yeah, we tried to continue later on. But what is very amazing is that after I talked to Travis, the founder of Uber, and said, “Okay, it's time to do backup worldwide”. We tried here, tried  it on another destination and tried and tried. And so this was the beginning of Uber Elevate. Yeah, and and the beginning of what Uber did in the future. That means open the Elevate business. We were at the beginning of that we tried in our small place. Yeah, just like that. And suddenly incredible. Uber taxis take the business, the idea to open a new idea worldwide, it was crazy...Uber had a great feeling about what's going on in the market. And so after we worked with Uber Elevate and now the idea is sold, as you know. And so now we work again, we know how it works. We had a great experience. So now we try to develop the transfers on the airport, with the operator of between Nice and Monaco, New York, Capetown, Macau-Hong Kong, and so on. So we tried to develop that. And after we also do on demand flights, that means something point to point, from this place to this place, which helicopter? How many passengers? and it's easy. 

And Uber has a partnership with Blade, I think right in New York. 

No, no, no. No. Uber is alone in New York. Okay, with another partner, but they have their own business.

Okay, they work directly with an operator in a way similar to what you're doing in for example in Nice

Yeah. We had a lot of discussion with Rob from Blade. We are partly in the same segment. Okay. But not the same way of working is under transfers. In New York, we are in transfers worldwide. We are mainly a marketplace and software as a service also. So it's a bit different. We work with them sometimes. Okay, we can propose their flights on our platform, we do it. And this is the idea. We don't want to compete, we want to open the market. That's all really versus focused on opening the market and leading the booking business in the helicopter.

And what is the profile of the typical user? I guess there's many different types. But I got the impression it is a bit of a premium product.

No, it is not. It is a convenient product. For sightseeing, it is only an experience. Okay. So like you want to, I don't know...like horse riding or something like that or going to a restaurant. It's exactly the same kind of experience. It is cheap, accessible, and easy to have. So the customer is everybody like you and me going to your destination and wanting to do something...for the transfers is a bit different. It's really convenient. I mean, when you pay 160 euros or 119 US dollars, it's not money. I mean, when you pay 1000 euros for your flight, you can pay small money for first reaching the end of the destination last kilometers from JFK to Manhattan. It can take an hour or an hour 30 minutes and it takes only seven minutes on a flight, and it will be an experience because you fly around, and you can see the destination from flight. So you can make it an experience...that's cool. And it's not very expensive. So the way we want a lot of people using the helicopter, they don't know anything about the helicopters. They know about planes like you and me because a lot of people are flying. But helicopters...what is it? They think it's expensive. They think it's not affordable. So it is important to be very present on the web, to democratize the use of the helicopter.

Actually that was my next question is how you market this how you promote it because for example, if I'm not a regular helicopter user, it possibly didn't come to my mind like “yeah, there's this platform where you can book helicopter rides and your next trip to Paris” for example, how you make sure that you are in the mind of people are in the mind of people that are potential customers for this type of service. 

It's a good question. When I leave the business of operator, I want to learn something else with my expertise. And so I said, okay, I know very well, the helicopter business, but I want to do something else. And I understand that the digital is a way to add new skills, and mix together to develop. So we are very present on the internet, with a Google partnership, with all the social networks, we use all of that. We have a team dedicated to that. Doing everything every day, about the business, and now it's around between 600,000 and 1 million people coming a year to our company to our websites,

6000? 

600,000! and 1000000

Okay

yeah. And it's growing each year, more and more.

What's your main market? Is it France? 

No, Europe 

Okay, Europe...Europe as a whole? But are there specific cities or routes...Paris?

Paris is definitely a must have. Depending the period, we had a lot of business in New York before COVID. We fly everyday in New York, with our partners, Everyday in Monaco. Dubai is a good destination also. And we try to add a new segment of business on events, like Formula One, and so on. So we say okay, let's go to see one event. And if we can do something on that, each time, it's like that. And with COVID it was a bit different. I mean, a lot of lockdowns everywhere. Yeah. So we cannot fly. So we lose a lot of customers, there was no tourism. So we become locally. So we try to work around each destination for people around for national business. Everything is moving like that. But it's...I mean, I have some customers flying with us in Paris, and also Dubai and New York,

And your business model is is a referral commission basis for each transaction that you produce for your partners? 

Exactly

And another thing that caught my eye when reading about your company is that you've been quite active in what's been called advanced air mobility. So, all the new upcoming generation of vehicles and other flying concepts are similar to helicopters in some ways, but a completely new breed of vehicle in some other ways. So in this case, you recently announced a deal with Embraer Eve, which is the eVTOL arm of Embraer. The one thing that caught my eye is that you basically contract packages of hours with Eve. So that made me wonder what the business model is? How does this work in practice? So who's going to operate this Eve eVTOLs, who is going to be the operator and are you  going to be commercializing or you're going to get involved as well in the operation of these vehicles?

To be clear, there is a market of flight hours. And it is  changing the number of passenger. We are not in America. But because of our history. We know it very well the status of operator. They're very traditional. And we are trying to add them to develop new services and new way of flying. So first, Helipass is an agnostic platform. So we will have all the eVTOL manufacturers, we talk with both of them. We have contact with some of them, we had the pleasure to have a first agreement with EVE. For us. It's very important. This is a great company and moreover, EVE comes from a manufacturer of planes. So I know that they are very powerful in terms of certification in terms of understanding the needs of the customer. So it's not only a startup company, from nowhere, but it's cool because...look at Tesla. They start from nowhere, and it's a success. 

Yeah, actually we had here on the podcast the, the head of executive aviation design at Embraer, I might not be quoting his title exactly, but basically the person that designs and Embraer’s business jets, new concepts and all that so...yeah...there is really interesting stuff they are doing, in terms of new design and new new ideas. 

Yeah, it's wonderful, the full idea, to be an agnostic platform,  in your pocket, if you are in Paris, London, Rio and you want to catch a vehicle, you need to see all the eVTOLs in the area from EVE, from Volocopter, from Lilium, from the vertical aerospace, or from an operator that I don't know, because all the models are different. Yeah, you know, some of them are vertical and others not. So we will help EVE to access the operators. And when we sell EVE, we also sell the way of marketing the product, the way of selling the product. I mean, you are not only selling a tool, you are selling a full, organized tool. Yeah, from product to customer

And the flying hours, how they fit into the picture? 

Yeah, first everybody's talking about flying taxis, you think...you will have an eVTOL taking you to your office, okay, this is the way they think.. In some countries, in some cities, it should be okay. Los Angeles, for example. But in Berlin it is a small city, it's difficult to do that downtown, directly at your door. So you need to take a cab to go to the vertiport to take it and so on, and so on. So it should be a great experience. And there are a lot of things to do in that, but the first stage is that we take care of this market and we understand this market, but we also take care of the sightseeing market. There is a number of flight-hours really huge, so we will target this market first, because it's growing at the moment. This is a good market at the moment, 6 million passengers. So it's a good market for that. And for the tourist market, there is a big problem with helicopters. They are banned from cities due to the noise and pollution. Look at New York, the mayor’s first action to decrease 20% of the movement for the next two months. And after he said okay, now it's 50% in six months, so you lose your business, you lose the opportunity to discover the city. And you know that tourism is a strategic thing for the country, for a city. It's a lot of business, it's a lot of jobs. It's an attractive system for understanding the country, make the promo of the country to attract investors, tourists and everything and have your place in the world as a big city. So I think it's bullshit to buy trees to make the balance with the pollution, like “I can pollute, because I buy” And I understand that this is the only tool we have at the moment. Okay, but now we need to go to zero emission. And electricity is the opportunity to do that. And so I think just on this market, it is okay.

I wanted to ask about the average duration of tourist flights...

20 minutes. 

Okay, so then there is no problem with the battery capacity, which is one of the constraints.

Yeah, today, but not tomorrow. So usually, it’s not a fixed picture, the picture is moving. At this stage, there is between five and 20 minutes, or five and 30 minutes depending on the size of your vehicle and so on. But everything is moving. Like in like with the cars beginning it's 200 kilometers now it's 700 kilometers. So it was too long to recharge, reload the system, now you have fast chargers. So everything is moving. I think the pictures of today is not the same will not be the same in two years and three years. So it's important to say okay, everybody is making an effort to bring this to the right level. I think the countries must help these business that are growing like they help the automotive market. And the only occasion is for the operators to transform their business, part of their business, into an electric business, it's easy to start with tourism. Because it's a market, definitely, there is a lot of money. The market is growing. And the what how I say the tourism is also changing his mind in more ecological, more environmental, most instant embers sustainable business, like the hotels, airlines and everybody so we can we can do that...

You are part of a project taking place in Paris, which I think it's led by the Paris region, but also Aeroports de Paris, that is the airport operator, the manager of the main Paris airports, and I think there are a few others...

Yeah, RATP which is in charge of the metro on buses in Paris…

And well...some industrial partners, from France and maybe some other international... 

Yeah, yes. Well, so basically, from what I read about this, this initiative that you're part of, has the idea is to create some sort of research, development and testing location at an airport near Paris, right, Pontoise, as it is called. 

Yeah. Yeah, right

I read about this project and found it quite interesting, because it's like a who's who of this industry, of the sector in Europe. So everyone is kind of doing some activity there 

In relation to this new development hub in Paris, what can you tell us about this? And what's your involvement?

First, this is something done by the Paris region, attracting investors in his region, and we are trying to make excellence in Paris, involving all the major stakeholders of the market. So we are 30 people, 30 companies, we put an we send a paper explaining what we want to do, and they select 30 companies out of 150 projects

Is it only for advanced mobility and eVTOLs or is it broader?

No, they do a lot, a lot of things. And there is one for the eVTOL. So our business is only for the eVTOL. So they attract OEMs, manufacturers, they attract research, they attract operational, they attract digital...And it's a place where everybody can talk and exchange, because we are not at the same level of market. And we are not doing the same things. So this is a real ecosystem of the urbanism of Air Mobility. Yeah, I don't want to say urban air mobility, because it's not only urban.

...and what's your involvement in there in practical terms, so what are we doing and how do you interact with all these other players out there?

We bring the experience... of what we are doing in terms of operation, how to manage the passengers, the welcome desk, information and how we can promote it. And our focus is definitely on the customers. So we are starting for the customers going back to the operator and the OEM. And we had them testing the way the customer wants to enter in this business, by Internet, by brick and mortar company, or depending what they want, and how long it takes to onboard the customer in the vehicle, how long it takes to move the veto on the ground. Because here in Paris, we are based at the Paris heliport. We have a hangar with lots of helicopters. 

Where is that in Paris? 

West of Paris

Very far?

No, no, just near the peripherique.

So the motorway that goes around?

Yeah, yeah, the motorway around Paris. We are just at this place west of southwest of Paris. So it's, it's easy access, there is Metro, everything you want…

And when will you have real passengers to test all these, I mean, the eVTOLs.

Just to test I think we can have that in one year or something like that, depending on the acceleration of the OEMs. I think Volocopter is ready for that. So if it's on the ground with a mockup or something, we can do that next year...we explain to them how it works with helicopters. It's partly the same. Yeah, I mean, take care of the passenger identification, the security, onboard seatbelts, all information about that flight...sounds the same. With a more updated version, I mean, how I can see that you are the right person on the boarding pass. So we work on that, for example, for the security, we also work on how long it takes to start to come and go in the helicopter. Because I mean, when you take a cab, you are underground, you open the door, you go in, and that's all...when you take an eVTOL, you need to book it, send your information, I am this person, my ID is this one, because like in a plane, at the moment, perhaps some some things will change that I think there is a lot of regulations from airlines. So you need to be referencing that at the beginning. 

Yeah, that's something that is often not very talked about...all these procedures, because we're just kind of assuming that it's going to be like taking a taxi. But if there are other security procedures, then the whole thing becomes a bit more cumbersome, depending on how you organize it. So with Eve, I think I read on the press release, the expected entry into service would be sometime around 2026.

2026, yes, this is a plane manufacturer. They know very well the certification system. So they said today, it will take this longer, it's easy to say that we will fly next year, we will fly in 2024, and so on. But I think it's not easy at the moment. And we understand that he has out for the regulator's now take the project and wants to help accelerate the project. So it's cool for everybody. And what you need to do in the right period. And so it's not easy.

What about helicopters, when eVTOLs become more mature and more common? Are they gonna see a future where both coexist? Or if it or the let's say the eVTOLs, the new generation vehicles, will somehow take the place of helicopters for many functions? 

It's a really good question...

They seem to be cheaper to operate in, at least from what I read….you know the numbers better because obviously you've been evaluating both. 

So I guess there are some functions for which helicopters still possibly have more capabilities. But there are many other functions which if they can be operated cheaper by eVTOLs, and I guess that will have an impact on the usage of traditional helicopters. I think that depending on the market when I used to talk to operators last year, they said “Fred, you're crazy. No eVTOLs blah, blah, blah...well, yeah, perhaps in 20 years, not our market...”. Now things are changing,  they understand that for some businesses, eVTOLs will be the solution. And for some other businesses, helicopters will always be the solution. I mean, if you want to do a flight between Paris and London, it's an hour and 15 minutes. Only helicopters can do that. Or the plane. There is no competition for that, at the moment, perhaps in the next 50 years. But not now. Like exactly the competition between the airlines and the train. There is not always completion. The eVTOL at the moment is for short trips. I know some of them want to do longer trips, an hour or something like that, so it's cool. And we will add that but there is a lot of work done by helicopters, logging or medevac...medevac from intown it’s ok for eVTOL, but medevac when you see that the flight is an hour or two hours from the hospital to another hospital...it’s not the business of the eVTOL today. But this is an opportunity to, at the end, help people fly and discover something so I don't care if it's eVTOL, helicopter..It's cool for everybody. There is a place for everybody. I'm okay that the eVTOL will be a bit cheaper. I'm okay with that. But not very cheap. Yeah, not very cheap. You will not buy it for $10 the flight.

Yeah, I guess at what point I was thinking at what point something is considered an eVTOL and at what point is considered a helicopter? If we are talking of the future of increased electrification, if helicopters at some point get electric motors, would they then be considered an eVTOL? What's the technical definition? 

Yeah, I don't know that. I think there is a mix of two things that are going to coexist. Yeah. And they will learn from each other. And we'll merge in a new thing at the end, more powerful. Perhaps the powerful or longer runs, is today a challenge, but will not be a challenge in the next decade. And we will move on that and if you see, the traditional OEMs, Leonardo, Bell, and Sikorsky, they are all taking care of that. Because they know there is a market. And this is the only way they understand the pressure of the environment also.

Yeah, I think that's a great point to wrap up here. Where can people find more about your company? Helipas.com? 

Yes. Helipass.com, the website with all the information on what we do 

And are you on social media channels? 

Yeah. We are also on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, everything. WeChat for the Chinese people and always as Helipass. 

Very good. Well, I'll keep that in mind for the next time I go somewhere to see from the helicopter.

And if you come to Paris, it will be a pleasure to see you. And next time at a show…

Hopefully. Yeah. Just restarting, restarting travel... got my first plane trip in a very long time last month. 

Where to? 

I went to France actually, to Basel-Mulhouse airport, it was nice to be back again on a plane.

I was in South Africa last week. And in Dubai in April. So I restarted traveling since the beginning of this year. We used to travel twice a month to see operators and partners and make deals around the world.

Yeah, well, let's hope that travel continues to recover 

Yeah, it's it's it's recovering

I was surprised to see a full plane. So yeah, that's a good sign. Well, thank you so much for for your insights today. And we thank you all the best with all these very exciting projects you are working on. 

Yeah, always a pleasure.

Thank you

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