The Allplane Podcast #15 - Aircraft cabin design, with Victor Carlioz & Matt Cleary
Matt Cleary
Victor Carlioz
If you think coming up with the ideal interior design for your home is a challenge, spare a thought for aircraft interior designers…
How to make sure that the hundreds of passengers that spend several hours in the strictly confined space that is the cabin of an airliner get the best possible experience? And what’s more, how to do so in compliance with all the technical and regulatory requirements while remaining aligned with the airline’s business model and profitability goals?
In this episode we travel to the sunny shores of California to speak with two experienced designers that, after several years working for Zodiac Aerospace, one of the leading companies in the field of cabin interiors, decided to set up shop on their own.
Victor Carlioz and Matt Cleary are the co-founders of ACLA Studio, a boutique design studio based in LA with a strong focus on aviation and transportation, from where they share their views about how the airline passenger experience should be.
We spoke about innovation in aircraft cabin design, about the tasks and challenges of aircraft cabin designers and about whether the Covid-19 epidemic is going to have lasting effects in the way we understand the airline cabin and the passenger experience.
Get yourself comfortable for this chat about the present and future of air travel!
Download this episode from:
Apple Podcasts / iTunes, Spotify, Google Podcasts or Stitcher
Things we talk about in this episode:
Is Covid-19 going to have a lasting impact on cabin design and the passenger experience?
Is cleanliness (and ease of cleaning) going to be a new defining attribute of aircraft cabins?
What are the constraints designers face when attempting to improve the cabin experience
From idea to reality: how new concepts for airline cabins come to fruition
New concepts for the passenger cabin: foldable seats, sleeping pods and Air New Zealand’s SkyNest and Skycouch concepts
Personalization of the passenger experience through technology
Resources:
“Airline cabins of the future: A new golden age of travel?” my article on CNN (2017) about innovation in the aircraft cabin
The Air Lair “bubble pod” concept for business class sleeping
Cabin light personalization technology by German company JetLite
Podcast Music: Five Armies by Kevin MacLeod
Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3762-five-armies
License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Interview Transcript
(please note that, although we strive to make it as close as possible to the original recording, the transcript may not be 100% accurate)
Hello and welcome to one more episode of the Allplane podcast, where every week we explore an area of expertise within the commercial aviation industry
As usual, a quick reminder that you can find this and all the preceding episodes of the Allplane podcast, as well as many other interesting stories about airlines and commercial aviation on our website, Allplane.tv, I repeat, this is Allplane.tv
Today’s episode is about design. Aircraft interior design to be more exact.
We have explored this topic in previous episodes, for example, I would recommend the episode we did a few weeks ago with Jay Beever, of Embraer where we discussed several ideas and concepts for executive jet design.
Today we are going to look at the larger jets, the airliners that most of us fly, and what are the key factors that determine their cabin design.
Matt Cleary and Victor Carlioz are the co-founders of ACLA Studio, an LA-based boutique design studio that focuses on the transportation and airline industries.
They founded their design studio about three years ago after both having worked in airline cabin design for a number of years at Zodiac Aerospace, now part of Safran, one of the largest global players in this segment of the industry.
Designing aircraft cabin interiors is quite a challenging task, since we are talking about an extremely constrained environment, where every inch of space counts.
You aspire to make the passenger experience better and do so with elegance and good taste, but you also need to factor in technical and material constraints, existing regulations and, of course, the airlines’ own business priorities.
This is why, despite some outlandish ideas being floated publicly every now and then, aircraft cabins usually see gradual, incremental improvements. Although our guests today are ready to emphasize how there is actually so much going on behind the scenes that makes the passenger experience consistently better with every iteration.
Without further ado, let’s connect with California to speak with our guests today!
-How are you?
-Good morning. I'm doing very well. Thank you.
-Good to have you joining us from sunny LA.
-Yeah, that's correct. We're located in California. But as it stands this morning, it's a little bit cloudy. So not the usual sunshine that we enjoy here...
-You both are cofounders of a design studio called ACLA. Mostly you work in transportation and aviation.
-Yeah, I mean, firstly, thank you. Thank you again, for thinking of us. We're delighted to have this opportunity this morning to chat with you and give you some insights into what we've been up to. And also, you know, our, our thoughts for the future of aviation. But yeah, that's, that's correct. We're a design studio based in LA, which we started coming up for three years ago now, myself and Victor. I'm an industrial designer by trade, and started actually 10 years ago. Working for a company based in the UK, and then worked my way to formerly Zodiac Aerospace, now Safran. And then that's where I met Victor six years ago, and then took the decision to go independent three years ago to reach a more broader audience and to work on a more diverse range of transportation projects.
-So you work not only with aviation, you work on other other types of projects as well, but your focus is on transportation.
-Yeah, this is Victor. Speaking. Yeah. Our idea and kind of a big drive to stop this independent studio was to really kind of bring some of the tools that we've developed over the years and bring it to a broader audience, as Matt said, and you know, aviation is our background is where we are coming from. We've been working, you know, both of us for almost 10 years and myself about eight years in this industry developing several concepts. And we think it's a really interesting part of design because it's really constrained. And that brings us like a strong process to also help other industries working, pretty constrained environments. So yeah, we've been also working on some in some other areas, and a little bit broader industries. But at the moment, all these projects are kind of like so in the works.
-So, you mentioned, a very key element here, that is the fact that aircraft cabins have a really constrained environment. And that's something we're going to discuss now. Because basically, lots of new concepts are coming across are actually trying to make the most out of these very constrained space and work within the regulations because it’s also a highly regulated industry where safety is the primary concern. What do you think are the main changes that are going to come up now with all these comments? We are seeing lots of headlines about “nothing is going to be the same again”, “airlines will come up with new cabin concepts, new ways of making the cabin safer insulating people in their seats”, like staggered seats, this sort of thing...What do you think of all this? What's the view in the design community?
-Um, you know, there have been some really interesting concepts put out there and a lot of them because it is a big concern at the moment. Generally, I think the view that Victor and I have here is that travel will resume with relative normality the next three years or so, and because people do fundamentally want to travel and they enjoy it. With regards to some of the concepts I think, as nice as they are, I think it's not likely to stick in reality. I think there will be changes within the cabin, long term, but perhaps more subtle ones. So I think when you're talking about cleanliness of the cabin, I think, you know, we're certainly looking at designs whereby if we're designing a storage or something on a business class seat, then to make sure it'd be easy to clean. And just considering the design of a product in that sense. But yeah, I mean, I think some of the concepts are nice, but certainly things that are coming along already in the business class seating environment is doors and I think that we'll have they're getting that additional separation and privacy, but generally, I think, you know, I think things will return to normal rather than have a mega impact on on the way we fly. I think I think another point is that one driver that this crisis will have is possibly the balance between the different classes in the airplane environment. So when you have three classes, let's say you have the economy class, premium economy and business class, there's always a challenge of balancing this space depending on demand. But I think one of the point that we have here for all these kind of short term solution for this crisis...it takes about three years I would say to to go from the first idea sketches and brainstorming session, I guess with putting the basic concept to develop it with engineers, production, airlines, and so on and so on before it goes on an airplane within three years..I think a lot of the concept then went to the mainstream media...a lot of them were looking at density, so, you know, blocking of middle seats and that sort of thing, which, in the long term you don't really want to disrupt the airline's business models, that's where the economics of these concepts come in, and then feasibility or are they actually going to make a difference. Social distancing or cleanliness is definitely always on our mind, and I think it's going to be the next really big topic and that will be a combination of working with material suppliers as well. There will be a big emphasis on materials and then the whole cleanliness process will have more impact into the design. So, in the past we did a workshop by thinking what about the crew? How is the crew interacting with this concept? What about the passenger and so on and I think we'll add we'll definitely add another workshop, the cleaning crew, I guess would be a very important element for this future.
-You mean including adapting the design of the cabin so that to make it easier to clean and to keep it safe from germs and bacteria?
-Yeah, I think so. I mean, we all have in mind these older seats with for example, you know, there's pockets in France that are designed in a way that basically are traps for any kind of trash, your stuff, your belongings or other food that you got during the flight and that gets dirty. Right? But I think at the moment, the cleaning crews are not really involved in the designing process at all. And it will be a very interesting part of the airline business to bring to the table during the design process.
-Indeed, I guess every frequent flyer has some horror stories about the sorts of things that might be found in these pockets in front of the seat! So it can be I know from some melted chocolate to whatever you can find... napkins...whatever you can find there. Yeah, absolutely!
-I guess one other point just to add to the cleaning factor is one conversation we had was, you know, we've been in meetings whereby often a fabric will get chosen. And someone might say, “Oh, you know, well, let's not choose this pattern because it will show the dirt too easily”. And perhaps we might see a change in that. In actual fact, we can choose lighter and less heavily patterned materials because, you know, it will show that it's dirty, and then it will, you know, require changing and for for airlines to want to change out because, you know, there's a desire for it to be very clean and, you know, just look nice, from a pattern perspective and look, and sanitize. So I think there might be a change in that mindset. You know, all too often we would use things because it was an easy route.
-Yeah, I actually was seeing that some of the newer seat designs were actually more ergonomic. Same with overhead bins, for example, it seems that there has been really already before the pandemic there was already a conscious effort by the industry to come up with new solutions: cleaner and easier to use.
-Yeah, I don't know if the overhead bins cleaning was the biggest factor for innovation but economics for sure there's a big you know, there's it's a big part of the crew boarding process. It's a lot of when you do it as a passenger we've only been it's not bad, but if you don't have to do it with a whole series of it, you know, a whole aircraft came in it can become quite a lot. So I think that was a really big emphasis on helping and making those mechanisms more balanced and the big driver was really the trend of everyone bringing their carry on. And that then, you know, relates to the density of the cabin space. Then you have to kind of solve that issue of bins to also put bags in. I think what those later solutions are focusing on is trying to optimize that space. And we have luggage that it's not flexible, it has a width, length and height. So sometimes your luggage doesn't fit for just a few inches. So that's really, the big challenge, to make sure that you anticipate all these different shapes of luggage in the future.
-Mm hmm. very interesting. Because one thing though, is that basically the basic configuration we have now in the cabin, be it in premium or economy class cabin, it's variations of the same. So basically everywhere in the world where you go Europe, America, Asia, it doesn't matter which airline, it's pretty much the same layout. The seats, older or newer seats, whatever, it's basically the same, it's like a tube where you put rows of seats. Now you are in the industry at the very forefront of new thinking and design and concepts. Is this going to be forever like this? What are the areas that allow for more innovation considering these constraints that we are facing here?
-Yeah, I think it's interesting, that you I mean, for us as designer we see a lot of variation in all these different two three rows of seats like I said, but that's because every inches in the cabin is so valuable and so there is a lot of work and opportunity, optimization in those areas, but within the idea of the broad cabin space, we worked on for this project for Zodiac Aerospace, pushing the boundaries of our carrying space using looking at the 3d space and trying to go over the bins, using space over the bins. It has been done in the past...and then the cargo area as well which has been explored further by an Airbus project. So that project that we were leading...we wanted to start the conversation within the industry, to talk about this...how could we configure them as cabin interiors and it has been done in the past you know, Lufthansa and Airbus with their A340, getting space in the cargo area, for example,, but those things are costly and they are difficult to implement. For a lot of reasons, and I think airlines are looking into it, but I think it's not just yet the priority for airlines but there is conversation in the industry and I think it's the desire to try to make the space a little bit more flexible, I guess, like you have the bars that have been done in the A380s and is quite interesting, the shower space and all these different areas are quite interesting. And then in business class, you know, the ying-and-yang configuration back and forth, trying to combine some space so that there is that desire, making the cabin more function functional, but the bulk of the passengers are not spending like, you know, two days in that space like, like in sleeper train, they really spend 12 to 20 hours in that space. So what we are really focusing on is the smoothness of the travel experience, less friction and more comfortable. So those configurations when you make them you really need to bring a huge benefit to the passenger to justify them.
-Yeah, actually, that's one of the questions I wanted to make is how effective or how popular are these sort of common areas because I remember, when a few years ago, the first A380s were coming out of the line, and there was a lot of expectation. And one of the things I read often is like, “Yeah, because this new aircraft you will be able to add a gym, or fitness area, like a lounge”,... these types of things. And at the end, some airlines have introduced some of these sort of common recreational areas, but I don't know up to what point they have really worked as expected. I suspect not as much. But what do you think is the case or are there really some success cases where it's been proven that yeah, these people like these areas and they do justify the investment?
-I think it's, it's a really interesting topic, the idea of the social zones and how they impact the flight. I think all too often people, you know, socialize and want to work out and do yoga and things. And you can kind of go quite far with that. And it sounds wonderful. But I think if you actually step back and think about the flights that you take, in reality, you can actually create a quite effective space that is not taking up a vast amount of footprint as some of these bars. Because, you know, when you're on a flight, and regardless of what class, I think, it's nice to go and get a snack or a drink, but you're not necessarily socializing the majority of the time. And, you know, the spaces are wonderful. I have, fortunately, had the opportunity to fly Emirates on the A380 and it's very nice, but you know, you'll grab a snack, perhaps a bottle of water, and then you head back to your seat. So I think we're probably looking at smaller spaces, more functional spaces in between the galley areas. And those spaces which humans are adopting well, but I think sadly, it might be the end of these big bar complexes and they'll get more compact.
-Maybe someday, we'll come up with some ancillary that can be monetized. I don't know if you have seen the Skynest unveiled by Air New Zealand, which I think it's a concept right now. It's not being implemented anytime soon yet, which I think they plan to. If it's implemented, they plan to charge people in economy class to have a sort of a bunk bed where you can sleep for some time, something like that...I don't know maybe even a casino that you can generate revenue and justify the investment on the space that you're taking off the seating plan
-I think the Skynest is a really interesting example to use this area for revenue because the biggest focus of most passengers is really getting some rest and sleeping as much as they can to recover from the travel experience that can be quite hard on your body and so on. To come back to the bars subject I think those have value as marketing and even if it's not used that much by passengers it still has a very strong impact from a marketing standpoint and on your desire to fly the specific airlines. There are many different reasons for people to choose the airlines but that is a big, big plus that cannot be (overlooked)...an one of the specifics of the A380, there are so many spaces in that airplane that are not hundred percent suitable for passengers...there is a lot of galley space and so on that really suits that airplane for those...all those social areas and different touch points. I think as a passenger having that that point of your journey where you feel like you need a break from being sitting down just to be able to do something, even if it's just five minute 10 minute walk, having a look at the the windows for five minutes, having a stretch and so on that is something that is very nice, but I think we can also do it very efficiently. The bar is something that also is this idea of, you know, of travel being that very premium experience, with the drinks and being more like a hotel and so on. And I think also one of the trends coming from the industry is that the travel is we're going to focus more and more on taking more care of your well being, your health and so on. And so I think there will be a trend to like also bring some areas where it's more about stretching or like it's more an area for like, getting that step back from your seats, getting some time off and refreshing yourself or, you know, more access to like things that are good for you. So I think that should be a big focus. So I think those flexible areas are always going to be there and there will be more or less investment into it. But the trend of adding a party to the plane and bars will stay there for some time, but some other airlines are going to look at these areas for more health and health benefits...
-And also another concept that I found really interesting and that came up in some conversations I've had with people in this space is the idea that you might have more flexibility in how you set up the cabin. So you might want, for example, to have a less dense cabin if the demand for a certain flight is no it's not so big or a more dense cabin in other cases. I remember there was this Italian company that came up with a foldable seat, that can give some more space when you don’t need that extra seat. Well basically also ideas to move the division between the premium cabin and the economy part of the cabin in an efficient and fast way. Which is something I think some airlines do already with cargo, they can convert overnight an aircraft into cargo or into passenger or a combination depending on demand, how do you see this type of approach?
-Well, the reality...most of the airlines really invest a lot into their cabin design, they actually have that flexibility just by different configuration of airplane that they have accessible, within the same airplane will be configured in many different versions of cabin depending on their routes and so that they can switch. They can use this airplane like that. The idea of convertible cabins that the switch from density and so on involve a lot of complexity. And the main thing is that it involves a lot of compromises in the density of each of these classes. So when you do something like a cabin that goes from premium economy to business class, then you're including compromises in your previous experience and then compromise is in your business class experience. So both of them are not as good as the one you would have or as dense or as efficient as what you would get from a normal Premium Economy or a normal business class. That's been like the big challenge of this complex system. I think the main innovation that is actually coming to passengers is the airline going to look at their future revenue and the focus on passengers? Would they allocate a little bit more space for the Premium Economy cabin? what is going to be that balance between the three classes in the space within the airplane, because as soon as that happens, as soon as you kind of change that balance you create, you redefined this the allocated space for each class and that automatically unlock some innovation from our standpoint, because then we have a different space to work with, to put the same number of passenger or more passenger and so on. And so that's when we go back to the drawing boards. And we consider all these constraints and we go on and like work on all these different seat configurations and angles and so on. And that's really what's going to be driving different concepts. It's much harder to just come up with a concept before having really analyzed what the airlines are going to want to do, and then try to sell that as like this is going to happen. Because if it doesn't, it's not grounded into the business model of the airline then it's very hard to justify
-What about something that was in the news for quite some time and reappears every now and then...that is standing seats that were suggested for some ultra low cost airline products. Any chance of this happening?
-I think it is a bit trickier I think, the general public perception was kind of not well accepted. And I think that's gonna be hard to kind of change people's minds. You know, a lot of the time, if people are flying on a low cost carrier they want to get from point A to point B, and, you know, quickly and efficiently, but they do often. But that that's just, you know, that is part of that low cost, travel experience. It's, you know, it gets you there. But then I think when the standing seat was put in front of people, I think it was a step too far in a lot of people's minds. I get it. I mean, perhaps it works, but I think some people already leave an aircraft with a sour taste in their mouth. And I think that that might have been a step too far.
-It might look a bit awkward to me...
-It's a combination of the media reactions from this and showing this concept being available...starting showing it to passengers. It is something that I think could have happened. And was following a big trend in, in the low cost business we just really offer as cheap flat as possible which in a way it's great because it's better for the environment, you reduce the co2 per passenger, you make it more affordable. And so you make it more available to people. And all of these are really good reasons to work on these efforts. But then there is a lot of safety regulation and technical issues that comes with it that makes it very challenging. And then there's a perception of the media and this idea of the media making it sound like this is just a way for the airline to make more money. And I think it has its benefits...at the moment I don't think it's really aligned with the trends of the industry...But you know, I think somebody could make a business model and make it work for sure. there's still room for it. I mean, there's many different types of people around the world that some people could really benefit from, it could be really helpful for a lot of people. So, again, it's always a you know, it's a design challenge and it's a business plan challenge from an airline standpoint and if you do it separately, I think it makes it very difficult...I think from a design perspective, there is way too to make it acceptable to passengers, there is always some design solution, but it kind of needs to be done in parallel and it is a pretty big challenge for, I think, a lot of population.
-Because having reached this point of our talk, I think it's the perfect time to introduce another question I had burning in my head. How does, let's say, the decision the development process, work for this type of cabin concepts. So, there are the airlines, there are the OEMs, then there are independent designers and design studios like you. And, obviously, there's other engineering companies involved. The people that make the seats, the people that make the different materials...what's the process like to introduce a new concept? Is it just the studios working at the request of the airlines, the OEMs to come up with new concepts? Are these ideas discussed during, let's say, other types of initiatives, of programs, to develop new types of aircraft? What are the dynamics in this world?
-There are no short answers. There's no standard process, usually, so many different ways to do it. I think all the scenarios you've highlighted happened in the past. There are some airlines that really are design centric, they really take on that issue heads on. And usually they work with, you know, their team, with the design studio...sometimes they go on from like, having to design a completely brand new seat design... In our case, you know, in our most recent cases and projects that we can talk about, we've developed in partnership with Adient Aerospace, we designed a new business class for them. So that was more cooperation between the OEM, the seat manufacturer and a design studio. And now we are introducing these seats’ design to two airlines. And then after that you have a little bit of customization and personalization of that design. But then you also have the OEM designing the seats on their own and many, many different ways, I think in general, the best process is when all the players are involved together in parallel. That's really where it works the smoothest. And there are many examples like that. But, yeah, there is a lot of value into this concept and this optimization of space and so on. So everybody wants, everybody is trying to get a part of it and to kind of bring something different to the industry as well. So there's a lot of innovation being shared at the Hamburg air show (the Hamburg Aircraft Interiors Expo) usually, and a lot of projects across the industry that are really focusing on introducing a new concept and that can be introduced by pretty much every player. So, there is also the example of a completely new concept where we work for example, with Zephyr Seats to develop a sleeping berth concept. So, yeah, like a bunk bed seating concept that we've developed in partnership with Zephyr Seats. And that was really a desire from somebody outside of the industry bringing a solution to one of the biggest pain points in the travel experience. And Jeffrey O'Neill who is the CEO of Zephyr aerospace, he comes from outside of the industry and he developed this seat from outside and now it's kind of being pushed by the actual passengers. So there is a desire for innovation being pushed, for like every single touch point and people being involved...
-Is this the sleeping pot concept..?
-Yes, you can call it like that...This innovation is really focused on offering a full flat bed at the density of premium economy and what we developed was really seats and a bunk bed that could be combined together and could be working at the density that we were looking for. And so that was really like kind of the highlight of that exercise. And yeah, the development keeps moving forward and if you look at their latest campaign they really wanted to reach out to the actual passenger audience...kind of reach out from outside the industry...they raised a lot of money from just people that really want these kind of innovation to arrive into the cabin...and I think is is fascinating as well to see that push from the passenger, from that side of things to make this innovation a reality. So people are ready to invest their own money because they believe in this idea and in the solution.
-Yeah, I’ll definitely check it out because I always introduced some notes, some show notes where people can find all the references and links and all the information to complement what we are talking about here. I was just asking about the pods because I remember there was a concept that something that looks like a bubble, I think that was for premium passengers, for business class cabin, where you had this sort of round bubble where you could sneak in and sleep inside and kind of isolate yourself from from the rest of the cabin and you have them stacked up so you had several of these bubbles one on top of the other sort of so that's kind of interesting and really cool.
-Yeah, I think this concept was interesting and was an inspiration for many years for us. It was really kind of like a conversation starter, but it was not really anchored in reality. And then what we've said...in aerospace we really spend a lot of time considering every constraint and what would mean from a revenue perspective. So we really focus on finding a solution that is extremely dense, so really efficient from a passengers layout standpoint. And then also like branding it into the reality of how are we going to make this, why are we doing this seat structure and how would this seat behave into a cabin environment and science...One of the things that we really tried to do is to really ground our more inspirational ideas to really always put them into the the realm of aircraft interiors reality from a revenue perspective and from a certification and engineering perspective.
- Mm hmm, Yeah. Because sometimes innovation can be something as simple as, for example, what Air New Zealand did...again, Air New Zealand! it seems to be a pretty innovative company when in comes to products...They did the Skycouch, where basically you join two or three seats, I think, on economy class, which is quite simple, technically, but it actually a nice product that you can then make some extra revenue from. So create a sort of a semi-premium product inside the economy class cabin. So, pretty interesting. And it was not rocket science, really! It's just something working with things that are already there
-It is not rocket science, but you will be surprised how much complexity there is. With this common concept, as well. From an ideas standpoint, it's pretty straightforward, but it's actually quite challenging to make it happen from a certification standpoint because...if in an emergency...if it's stuck into this upward position...then there are a lot of certification issues. So, you need to think about all these different, I guess safe safeguards and a secondary safety option in case one of the mechanisms fails, because that could block somebody from exiting. So, there was a lot... I mean, to the credit of New Zealand, there were a lot of different steps that needed to happen to actually make it happen. Yeah. And this is the value of these concepts. Yes, from a passenger standpoint, it's better there is a little bit of auxiliary revenue, I think but also I think the main value is really from a marketing standpoint to see those images. And same thing with us, the bunk concept they're introducing is so much value from passengers to see that an airline actually cares about trying to improve their experience, and really spending time there. And that does really strike people's imagination, even if they aren't really going to use it, just to know that their airline is taking those steps.
-And actually, there is also also something that really fascinates me in this world is actually that there seems to be as well a pursuit of, of ideas that pretty much everyone knows that are difficult to make a reality, but they kind of lead the way in in the same way as, for example, in the fashion industry, you have all these top designers that are kind of leading the way creating things that look a bit extravagant, and they might not really be adopted in everyday life, but they kind of mark the way. In this podcast we had Jay Beever, for example, from Embraer that designs, very original unique executive jet interiors for Embraer. And we talked about this, about how you come up with some ideas that might not become a reality immediately because obviously there are many challenges. The regulation, and certification challenges are obvious ones and also the challenges with the business model, how this fits into the current business models, etc. But maybe they will become a reality as soon as new ways of traveling become a reality. And here I'm thinking, Airbus, for example, has been coming up with some ideas about biomimicry, electric planes. So lots of different things going on...same with personal air mobility, new concepts to move people around. How do you see this sort of cutting edge concept? are constantly on the media that might not become a reality still in a few decades time, but some of them are really, really attractive in terms of, you know, making things more closer to nature and all that…
-I think there's definitely a need and a craving from people and to see these and they do inspire us, I think that they are, you know, they're nice that you know, that it's great to kind of look at an image and kind of depicts a potential future and get excited about it and I think, you know, a lot of the time whether or not they take flight fully, and but they can influence the way we design things and think. Still quite a way away, but um, I think it's exciting as well, because that can truly transform the way we travel around cities and point to point to the local destinations and personally that would be for wealthy people, initially, we believe, rather than be a commodity around the city, like a taxi, but still it's, you know, these visions of the future are what excites us and what keeps us kind of innovating in that sense.
-How technology can contribute to the cabin experience, thinking here about electronics, IFE - and here’s a disclaimer because I have been working as a consultant for a company that is active in the IFE space, called Immfly - but more generally I’d like to discuss things like cabin lighting. For example, there’s a German company called Jetlite that has developed a system to provide personalized lighting based on LED or things like VR sets...beyond the actual physical cabin, the seats, what do you think are the most promising areas to improve the passenger experience based on electronics and computing…
-I am still a huge fan of IFE, I think it’s going to be there. You get on a plane and you have your screen there, you get that sense of luxury and the sense that the airline is investing in your experience. IFE is a great investment and the passengers appreciate it. And moving forward to the lighting I think that is something that has been innovated. Mood lighting, yeah, like in cars, this is the next step and will become more common. It will be more tricky if you look at the whole cabin and you see a sort of a rainbow if it is personalized to give people complete control.
-It follows improvements in everyday life technology, something you see already in cars but at another level since it takes about three years to develop something when it comes to the airplanes it seems like the technology is kind of already dragging behind. I think the biggest improvement we’ll see in the future is something we already see in the car industry, between the traditional OEMs and Tesla, and is the idea of constantly updated and personalized software. I think software is going to become more and more important and, of course, that connection is going to be through your iphone and IFE provider, staying connected, getting updates, this will take the whole experience to a new level. Once an airline manages to implement this idea of the whole cabin being connected and can be quickly changed through software, we will unlock a lot of innovation naturally and it is a matter of how you design hardware for that future. How you solve the different passenger needs through software…
-Lots of interesting stuff! Do you think the difficulty of adopting very disruptive new concepts is down to regulation, certification or is it more the airlines being conservative…
-I think it is more complex than that. To make significant and valuable design improvements needs a lot of dedication and knowledge and it is difficult to show in a rendering, and there is a lot of innovation going on behind the scenes. This industry is very secretive, all successful concepts are usually done inside. For example we believe premium economy will be a major part of the cabin and this is an scenario that it is not being improved on, so we have designed some concepts that do not impact the cabin density, the business model but really change the experience and bring a new level of comfort to that environment and we have been working on a design for two years and we are solely introducing it to the industry. A brand new concept., behind the scenes. We have developed in parallel with the airlines and the seat manufacturers. So I think most of the best concepts are developed like that, this is just the nature of the industry, form an external observatory it looks like the concepts go nowhere but actually there is a lot going behind the scenes, a lot of effort, a lot of work being done. I think there will be a lot of airlines trying new business models and this is going to unlock a lot of innovation. You are going to see one day an airline coming up with a press release showing the new cabin interiors and this sis going to be the first time you see that concept, no one has seen that concept before
-And I guess if the new propulsion ideas, like hydrogen and electric become reality they are going to come with their own set of constructive solutions...and that’s going to unleash another way of thinking and design and potentially disruptive concepts...although this is I think still far into the future
-Yes, still far into the future, but again, it's a huge part of our constraints...when a new airframe is being designed there is a lot of consideration that the cabin designers need to take into account, the width of the fuselage, where you put the seat tracks, how much flexibility you give to the cabin design...so, designing a new airplane now...you should be talking to cabin designers and the people involved in defining the future cabin as much as possible, because a big part of the reasons you fly an airplane is the cabin experience. Considering these things early can make your airplanes sell by themselves…
-So, basically any airlines, OEMs or engineering companies that want to get you onboard to think about their new designs...where can they find you? Aclastudio.com and where else?
-Or just our emails: victor@aclastudio.com or matt@aclastudio.com ...we are a small boutique studio, 3-4 full time employees and then we grow the team depending on the project. From a studio standpoint we bring inspiration and passion for the industry. Airlines and aircraft interiors is something we think about every day. So, for sure, we look forward to any connections on this…!
-It’s been great having you here today discussing this very important aspect of the air travel experience, which all of us get to experience...looking forward to speaking with you in the future to see how things have evolved! In the meantime, thank you so much! Stay safe!
-Thank you so much, it was very interesting, always happy to talk about this industry that is fascinating to be working in!