The Allplane Podcast #11 - The Alaska-Siberia air route, with Jeff Geer and Craig Lang

Between 1942 and 1945, at the height of WW2, a proper air highway was established between the United States and the Soviet Union.

Thousands of aircraft, coming out of America’s factories and destined for the Soviets’ European front made an arduous journey of thousands of miles over some of the most remote places on Earth. It was known as the ALSIB (Alaska-Siberia) route.

All pictures courtesy of Bravo 369 Flight Foundation

All pictures courtesy of Bravo 369 Flight Foundation

Fast forward eight decades and two aviation enthusiasts from Washington state, Jeff Geer and Craig Lang, set to recreate that historical episode and bring it back to the spotlight.

In 2013 they completed the North American section of the route, between Great Falls, Montana, and Fairbanks, Alaska, in a WW2-era T-6 Texan.

By 2015, more planes had joined the expedition, as well as a number of partners on the Russian side, including the Russian Geographical Society and the Russian civilian aviation authorities, which made it possible for two C-47s to fly all the way from Alaska to Moscow, where they joined the 2015 MAKS air show display.

The ALSIB Route. Picture: Alexander Dolitsky of the Alaska-Siberia Research Center

The ALSIB Route. Picture: Alexander Dolitsky of the Alaska-Siberia Research Center

The current Covid-19 epidemic has forced the postponement of ALSIB 2020, which was originally scheduled for this summer. Although Jeff and Craig are positive in that next year they will be able to retake the project of filming a documentary all along this itinerary.

The next ALSIB expedition will have to wait for now. Nevertheless, I called them both to learn more about this very unique initiative, channeled through the Bravo 369 Flight Foundation Project, which defies ongoing geopolitical turbulence and aims to bring a little thaw to the current mistrust between the US and Russia.

Join us for an account of how Jeff and Craig plan to bridge this intercontinental divide and why it is so important to remember this very interesting, yet, generally unknown, episode of WW2.

Things we talk about in this episode:

  • What was the original ALSIB and how did it work during WW2

  • What is the Bravo369 Foundation

  • The origins of the project and ALSIB 2015

  • What is the itinerary for ALSIB 2020

  • The upcoming documentary film project about ALSIB

Download this episode on:

Apple Podcasts / iTunes, Spotify, Google Podcasts or Stitcher

Resources:

Bravo 369 Flight Foundation Project

Warplanes to Siberia (the site of the next ALSIB & future documentary project)

The ALSIB podcast

Some info about the previous ALSIB (2015)

Rusavia, ALSIB partners on the Russian side

Douglas C-47

T-6 Texan

The Boeing Stearman that Jeff mentions

The North American Navion that is also mentioned

Wikipedia entry on the historical ALSIB

Jeff and Craig by the ALSIB monument in Fairbanks, Alaska

Jeff and Craig by the ALSIB monument in Fairbanks, Alaska

Interview Transcript

(please note that, although we strive to make it as close as possible to the original recording, the transcript may not be 100% accurate)

Hello and welcome to The Allplane Podcast

The podcast where we learn about different aspects of the aviation industry by talking with experienced aviation professionals

I feel compelled to start today’s episode with a short historical introduction…I just would like to ask you to look back eighty years in time. 

Back then the world was at war and, despite their political and ideological differences, the US and the Soviet Union were fighting on the same side of the conflict

America became, in fact, the arsenal of the world, supplying huge amounts of war material to all fronts of the war, including the ones where the Soviets were active

If you have a quick look at the map, you will see that the US and Russia are literally just a few miles apart from each other at the closest point: the remote and unforgiving Bering strait, that separates Alaska from the Far East of Russia.

During the war years, thousands of aircraft flew through this region, while in transit, from their factories in the US to the European war theater. 

From Great Falls, Montana, American crews flew those factory-new aircraft over North-West Canada all the way to Fairbanks, Alaska, where the aircraft were taken over by Soviet crews for the ferry flight to Siberia. This was known as the ALSIB route, its name standing, of course, for AL-Alaska, and SIB-Siberia.

This was a route that, at the very best of times, was fraught with danger, not from the enemy, but from the extreme weather conditions that often prevail in this Arctic regions.

And this is when our guests today, Jeff Geer and Craig Lang, come into the picture. They are both aviation enthusiasts based in Washington state and, through the Bravo 369 Flight Foundation they have launched a number of initiatives to recover the memory of this little publicized episode of the Second World War.

On two occasions, in 2013 and 2015 they partly retraced the old ALSIB route with a flight of vintage aircraft. Two C-47s piloted by Russian pilots did eventually make it all the way to Moscow, where they were exhibited at the 2015 MAKS air show.

This summer, ALSIB 2020 was expected to take place. And this time Jeff and Craig had prepared to fly all the way to Siberia while filming a documentary. 

But, the Covid-19 pandemic has, of course, got in the way. So this project is now postponed until at least the summer of 2021. 

Nevertheless I thought it was a good idea to call Jeff and Craig and learn more about this fascinating, unique project that combines aviation, military history and the unspoilt, wild natural beauty of some of the most remote regions in this planet

Without further ado, let me welcome to the podcast our guests today....

-Hello, Jeff and Craig, how are you?

-Oh, doing well, thank you from sunny Washington state this morning!

-Great. Hello, Miguel. This is Craig and always good to talk with you.

-You also based in Washington State? 

-Yes!

-Very good. Are you near Seattle or which part of the state are you in? 

-Basically, we're up, almost hugging the Canadian border. We're north of Seattle.

-I heard it's a very beautiful area. I've never been in that area. But definitely one of the places I would like to visit when I go.

-Well, let Jeff let Jeff and myself be the first to send you a formal invitation to come visit us in beautiful Washington State. I think that's the best way to see it is by air. So consider yourself having reserved seat on one of Bravo 369 warbirds. 

-Okay, well, I'll take you on that excuse to go flying again!

-Yeah, definitely. 

- So let me introduce you to our audience. You've been working on a very interesting project that is basically to recreate the old route that aircraft were flying during World War Two to supply the Soviet Union through Alaska and then crossing the Bering Straits onto Siberia and all the way to Europe. And you are running a how would you call it? An air rally from Alaska all the way through Siberia and onto Moscow. Right?

-Well, that is correct. And apparently, the project itself is as you stated it, it really it's all about the commemoration and the flight recreation. During World War Two of military aircraft, the United States sent nearly 8,000 military aircraft From the factories to the Soviet Union via Alaska and so the route really started at the American factories and then the aircraft were staged at Great Falls, Montana,, and then an air route called the Northwest Staging Route, which is part of the Alaska-Siberia air route, ALSIB as we tend to refer to it, begins at a Great Falls, Montana, and it goes up through Alberta, Northern BC across the Yukon and then into Fairbanks, Alaska. And Fairbanks was the terminus of the American deliveries of these aircraft and they met the Soviet pilots there. In Fairbanks, they're at a field for transfer from their cross Siberia to Krasnoyarsk. So the project is we have been working on it for several years we have called ALSIB. And l said by here, so outlook 2013 was really our first test flight, if you will, and we took North American 86 Texans, of which 54 of those were delivered across the route during World War Two. And we flew the test route in 2013. Just to make sure that, you know, we as pilots and crew we were up to the challenge and of course, the aircraft themselves being, you know, over 70 years old. And so that was kind of the start. And then, in 2015, we actually did a flight with our Russian Flight partner. They had a seat, a couple of C-47s sevens and we had a couple of T-6s and we flew to Fairbanks and met with our Russian counterparts there and then they took the flight from there to Krasnoyarsk and then eventually to their home base and Moscow. So what we're doing really, Miquel, what the project is, is that we have a little bit of unfinished business From 2015, and that the main thrust of the project is really the documentary film about all of the history and the cooperative effort between the United States and the Soviet Union during World War Two. So, our final push, which was going to happen this year before COVID-19 hit, was to get funding into the project so we could complete the documentary film and do the full flight recreation project with the American crew between the United States and Krasnoyarsk, Russia.

-So what's the situation now? It's still on, or you have to postpone it?

-Yeah, unfortunately, unfortunately, we had to postpone ALSIB 2020. And primarily what we were going to do in 2020, was to do a commemorative flight celebrating the 75th anniversary of the end of World War Two or as in Russia as they refer to as the Great Patriotic War. So unfortunately, with everything that's going on in the world right now. And we had a bit of a funding shortage, we had to postpone the project until next year. So we're really kind of looking at ALSIB 2021, if you will, but the focus is really going to be on the documentary film. And then we're using the flight from the US, flying warbirds, military aircraft, across Siberia to cross the Arctic as part of the documentary film process, but they'll use that as a tool to tell this amazing story.

-Because ALSIB are the initials for AL for Alaska and SIB for Siberia.Right? 

-That is correct. Yes.

-Okay. Yes. I remember seeing the C-47s at the MAKS airshow in Moscow in 2015. That was the end terminus of the expedition in 2015

-That is correct. Yes, that was the terminus of the 2015 project and that aircraft was flown and maintained by RusAvia who is our partner on that leg of the project. And Craig and I were there too at MAKS her show and we did a press conference towards the end of the Max Air Show a big one with our team from Rusavia and several others and actually handed one of those C-47 off to a museum and Military Aviation Museum there. And it was really quite a quite a celebration.

-So it's not a regular thing?

-Correct. It's not a regular thing. So what we're doing this year is we're planning to do the flight next year, but again, you know, we're gearing up for the documentary film production too. So we'll have film crews and flight crews and, you know, again the basic need right now is that we have to bring on sponsors and project donors, supporters were a nonprofit organization here in the United States. So the bulk of our funding comes from either project sponsorship through corporations, major corporations, or philanthropic sources, donors, just individuals who, you know, would like to help contribute to the project. So, we were kind of reset for 2020. And we're gearing up now for 2021. And so we hope, you know, there's some people out there that want to take an interest in it and help support this great project.

-And the organization through which you are managing this project is called the Bravo 369

-That is correct. It's the Bravo 369 Flight Foundation. And people often ask us, well, what does Bravo 369 mean? and it's kind of a bit of a part of the story of how we really got into this project in the first place, but originally just kind of the high level view of it. Many, many years ago, I was looking at doing a solo flight to Provedenye, Russia in a Boeing Stearman. And we were looking for some routes to fly that airplane up through Alaska that were a little bit better than flying up the coast of Washington and going into Alaska where the weather's a lot worse. But the route that we actually ended up with was the Alaska-Siberia air route. But we discovered that we really knew nothing about this history of the United States and the Soviet Union. Being allies in this manner during World War Two as a lot of people are not really aware of it to this day. But, anyway, getting to Bravo what Bravo 369 means is that there is a general aviation route that was established several years ago in a cooperative effort between the United States and Russia, between Nome, Alaska, and Provedenye, Russia, and that air route was established to help foster the growth of general aviation between Alaska United States obviously and Russia. So, you know, because this was going to be our first flight and project will be on the 369 air route, as they call it, or Bravo 369 had a special meaning to us. And so we named our organization after the first air route that we were going to take to Russia.

-And you also have some partners on the Russian side as well. Right? So you've got support from local institutions, the Russian Geographical Society as well and some other organizations...

-That's correct. And I'm gonna let Craig chime in here too, because we have established over the years a tremendous working relationship with the Russian government. And it all really started through the consulate in Seattle, and that was Consul General Andrey Ushmanov and, you know, through the The work that we did with a consulate really got the project and the information out to others in the Russian government and there was a great deal of interest that was generated. And then, eventually, we found ourselves speaking with the Russian Embassy, who was really being the liaison between us and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the FATA to help grow this project and get, you know, the necessary permits and approvals that we needed to fly across Russia. So Craig, you may want to add on to that... 

-One question. What's the FATA?

-FATA, in Russia, it's the Federal Air Transport Agency. It's the equivalent of our FAA here in the United States, or in Russia is known as “Rosaviatsia”. 

-Yeah. Okay. 

-So there's quite a process that you know, you'd have to go through to get all of your flight and landing permits and things of that nature for each of the airports along the route. And we did find actually some more resources that were able to help us because we're really considered as general aviation aircraft and so MAK General Aviation Services in Moscow has a wonderful service that they really stepped up and, and help general aviation pilots like us with all the permits and the fuel logistics and everything of that nature for people that are flying between the United States and Russia and other countries going into Russia to not just the US

-I can imagine the paperwork for such an unusual flight and, and coming through a direction that not many people are actually flying into Russia through that area. So it's Yeah, unique mission... 

-Yeah, you know, and with aviation being the way it is, you know, we're very used to, you know, just being able to go pretty much anywhere, you know, we want on a moment's notice. You know, and our GA aircraft here in the United States, but you know, and then the same thing, you know, happens in Russia, but when you do this exchange between countries and you're flying across international borders, you know, there's certainly a lot of restrictions, you know, paperwork and guidelines and things that you need to follow. And so, very early on, we recognize this and been working on it. And, you know, there there are many layers of bureaucracy that you have to go through to, you know, give them your flight plan, your intentions, really the timing of your flights in between airports and things of that nature. So can be a difficult process, but we found that they have been very cooperative and very helpful in getting us through this process. And MAK General Aviation Services has really stepped up on our behalf. They help with this process. But I'd like to go back just a second because I think Craig probably has something that he wants to discuss in terms of a relationship that we've built with the Russian government. And Craig, I think you're on mute there.

-Well, anyway, we can wait for Craig to join.

-Okay, I guess. Okay…

-Okay, there we go. Okay. Yeah. Go ahead, Miquel. I'm sorry...

-No, I just wanted to ask you about the experience with a previous expedition in 2015. Because you flew over areas of outstanding natural beauty, very remote, and with very large distances to be covered, and actually some very limited infrastructure. I remember I wrote an article for CNN about the wooden airports of Russia and many of them went along this path you follow and I have to thank you because you helped me find some pictures for some of these airports that are quite remote. So what was the experience? Like? I mean, you were flying for how long? And how did you go about when you stopped? How many people were you onboard? All of these things? It sounds like a really interesting journey.

-It really was. Um, yeah, I, you know, I have to probably go back a little bit just prior to 2015 and sort of how we got there. Um, really, I think the 2015 flight started during our 2013 test flight to Alaska. And, again, we were flying the North American T-6 Texan and it was myself, Alan Anders, who is our flight operations director for the project. We were in his T-6 and then Mark Kandianis, who is a friend of ours, here in Bellingham, Washington, that's also a T-6 pilot, but he flew support in his Cessna 206 So we, we affectionately called his airplane, the Chuck Wagon. It's an old Western term about, you know, hauling, hauling supplies and things of that nature. So we threw all of our bags and all of our, you know, provisions and everything and his 206, and, you know, he was our logistics support aircraft for that flight. But during the 2013 flight, we had put out a press release about the flight. And also there was a TV crew that came out of Washington, DC, which was part of RT, which was an RT news crew that did an interview with us in Seattle at the Museum of Flight as we were preparing to take off on our test flight. And so that segment was aired in Russia and particularly in Moscow. And anyway, the folks from Rusavia picked up on the news broadcast and thought, Wow, that's a really great project and Rusavia, of course, you know, they do a lot in capturing a lot of aviation history. They write a lot of books, present a lot of really good materials in Russia and Russian aviation history. And so anyway, they saw the interview and wanted to become part of the project. And so I was contacted, actually, we were in Dawson Creek, British Columbia, when I got the email, and they had invited us out to the MAKS air show that year after our flight was done. Of course, we couldn't make it. It was just pretty short notice for us, but anyway, we kept the dialogue going and came to working on the 2015 project. And Rusavia came on board and they did a tremendous job in helping to bring together the Russian side of the project. And so, really, you know, we worked on the North American side and we work with them on the Russian side. We were of course the lead because ALSIB this project was founded by Bravo 369 and to join it Rusavia purchased a couple of C-47s, actually, and we met up in Great Falls Montana for the 2015 flight so we had three T-6 Texans, we had two C-47s. Again all aircraft that were provided to the Soviet Union during World War Two under the Lend Lease program. 

-Can I stop you here one second: to whom do these planes belong? do they belong to the foundation or they belong to other people?I didn’t get that...

-So, the C-47s belong to Rusavia and Bravo 369 owned one of the T-6 and then the other T-6s were privately owned, one was owned by our flight director Alan Anders. And then again, Mark Kandianis, who joined us on the 2013 flight had his T-6 there at Great Falls, but the only T-6 that actually went from Great Falls to Fairbanks Alaska was the one I was piloting. So, we had one T-6 that went to Great Falls but the other two, we all joined up at Great Falls for an air show that was happening. We celebrated the kickoff of this flight. So we all came together in one place. So it was the C-47s owned by Rusavia and one T-6 owned by Bravo 369. And then two support T-6s that joined us in Great Falls, Montana. 

-Did you fly all together, as a flock? 

-We did, yeah, we did. The T-6s flew together and then the T-6s went out together. When Craig and I were heading north and Craig was flying with me. He was in the backseat of our T-6. And then we had also one other aircraft that was the logistics aircraft that came along and it wasn't a WW2 aircraft, but it was owned by one of our board members, former board members, Alan Snowy, and it was a North American Navion on and it was a liaison aircraft that was used by the military, but it was definitely post World War Two. And so anyway, we took off with our T-6 and the Navion as our logistics and support aircraft. The C-47s flew later and one of the C-47s actually had to go a different route, because they had some problems with a couple of crew members not being able to get entry visas into Canada. So one of the C-47s took off about a day behind us. And they flew the route and the first meetup that we had was in Edmonton, Alberta. And then we kept moving ahead because they had some mechanical problems in Edmonton and then we continued on and then met up with them a few days later. in Fairbanks, Alaska, and then joined by the second C-47s.

-Interesting. How many days for the whole expedition?

-Oh, the North American leg between...let's call it you know, even though we're based in Bellingham, Washington,I consider that the flight actually started in Great Falls, Montana...took us only five days to get up to Fairbanks. We did encounter some really bad weather conditions going through Alberta, and we were actually weathered in Edmonton for at least a day. I think it was about two days before we could take off again, and so it kind of altered our plan just a little bit, but then we kept going at a pretty good pace. We were flying, you know, two legs a day, and then ended up in Fairbanks on a Friday. So we took off on a Monday out of Great Falls and then got to Fairbanks. late Friday afternoon, early evening that week

-And then from Fairbanks, to Chukotka, on the Russian side of the Bering Strait, you did it in one leg?

-That was one leg. And so this is where we actually had to hand off the flight to our Russian partners. Because one of the problems that we had in 2015 was being able to get all the permits and everything that we needed to do to fly across Russia as an American crew. Remember the geopolitical tensions that were going on in 2015, there were a lot of things that were going on, you know, due to what was happening in Ukraine and Crimea at the time. There was a lot of tension between the US and Russia in those days, and even though we had really great cooperation through the embassy, we just could not seem to get the permits needed to allow our crews to be able to fly across. So much like what happened in World War Two, we handed the flight off to our Russian partners and then they took it from there to Krasnoyarsk. Much like during World War Two, the American crews ferried airplanes to Fairbanks and handed them off to the Soviet pilots to be ferried across the route to from Fairbanks to Krasnoyarsk…

-That was the real treat. When it comes to (historical) recreation…

-We had a really great celebration too in Fairbanks. There's a Lend Lease Memorial, right in downtown Fairbanks, Alaska. And you may have seen the statue and it was a creation and a project that was managed by one of our subject matter experts and author Dr. Alexander Dolitsky. He lives in Juneau, Alaska. But he was a project manager on this memorial. It's a really great memorial and it basically is a statue of an American and a Russian pilot standing together. And they were pointing back towards Great Falls, Montana, as if, you know, they're watching airplanes coming into Fairbanks to be delivered. It's a wonderful Memorial. And so we had a ceremony there where we handed off the 2015 flight to our Russian team and they took it from there so much like, you know, transferring aircraft to the Soviet pilots during World War Two, we transferred the ALSIB 2015 flight to our Russian team, right there at Fairbanks at the memorial. So it was really a great ceremony.

-But did you continue as passengers, we Russia?

-We did not. Unfortunately, we had to go back, we had to turn the airplane around and go back to our home base and Bellingham, Washington, that was really the terminus for us during the 2015 flight. And so when I said earlier in the interview, you know, we have some unfinished business, the unfinished business is, you know, our American team flying all the way to Krasnoyarsk to complete this, this journey, but also it's the documentary film. That's the big priority here to help tell this entire history about the lend lease program, the cooperation between the Soviet Union in the United States during World War Two, and the transfer of these aircraft and so the flight that we plan to do next year, it's really it's a tool to help tell the story of this amazing and very much untold history of world war two aviation

-And how you plan to distribute this film? Is it going to be available on some digital platform? in cinemas? Where?

-Yeah, well? Well, we plan to do...we have a really wonderful production company and we just actually did an interview with him just yesterday on our podcast. And it's a company out of Ohio called Hemlock films and they've produced a number of really great aviation World War Two aviation documentaries that they've won Emmy Awards for their work, they're going to join, they're going to join us in production. They're going to be the lead producers. And then what we hope to do is the first film that's going to come out will be a one hour film that, you know, we hope to be able to, to get out on a digital platform, we'd love to see it come up on, you know, Netflix or Amazon Prime or something like that...we'll work on that down the road. But this this film, this one hour film, we hope will lead to a much bigger production which will be all-encompassing plan for a 12-part series on the entire history of Alaska-Siberia route lend lease, the Soviet side of the the air route and that history and bringing together all this work from some really great authors and subject matter experts that hasn't been widely distributed, bringing all this information and history together into one big documentary film. So we can finally get this history out there and get a tone.

-And do you have already decided what's going to be the itinerary you're going to follow once you cross into Russia?

-We have. The North American route is very much established. And then once we get to our final final stopping place just for maintenance checks and fuel and getting our final permission to in our final clearances to be able to cross into Russian airspace, we'll be at Nome, Alaska, and so we will cross the barrier Bering Sea Bering Strait and go right straight to Anadyr, in the Chukotka region, and in Chukotka, we're also working with the government of the Chutkoka Autonomous Region and, and being a part and involved in our initial landings at an idea to do celebration there. So from there, we've got a couple of alterations to our flight plan, but it's going to generally follow the Alaska Siberia air route originally as it was planned. And we'll have those flight plans posted up on our website. So if you go actually go to our website or Bravo 369 dot org. We do have a map up there that shows the general route of the Alaska Siberia air route, so that's going to be generally the route that we will we will use

-This is going to be in summer, because Winter can be very unforgiving, right? 

-It's very unforgiving. very unforgiving...You know, there are some incredible stories, Miquel, about the pilots that flew across the route during World War Two, both American and Soviet pilots and during all kinds of really, really terrible weather conditions. And and, you know, for all of the other pilots that are out there listening to this, you know, here we are. Today we have this wonderful technology with us and, you know, all of the electronic navigation aids at our disposal and digital kneepads, you know, everybody's got, you know, iPads and tablets that they use for their charts and navigation and we have all have modern avionics, even in the warbirds, the old warbirds we have upgraded avionics with all the modern stuff, but think about these guys during World War Two that basically they were barely, barely, a radio navigation system to fly in the United States and virtually nothing, but just very crude charts. And so, instrument flying conditions were really, you know, just based on, you know, compass headings, if you will. Later on, when the radio range beams came in, they called it flying the beam, but it was called an A, and so alpha November radio range, it was just a broadcast signal with a tone that told you if you're on course or off course, and that's what they had to fly in terms of navigation. So if he got lost in the bad weather and you know sub zero temperatures, I mean, we're talking you know, minus 30 minus 40 C, getting lost ice fog, just, you know...blizzard conditions, whatever...the cold weather conditions were both tough, very tough on the aircraft and tough on the pilots because a lot of these airplanes didn't have any cabin heating, so you can imagine what it must have been like to fly, and particularly the same conditions across Siberia. One of the stories that I always like to tell that really, I think, captures what the pilots went through flying during these really horrible winter conditions and weather conditions, in general, going across Siberia. During our 2015 flight, we had a very small film crew that came along that was supported. It was actually one of our sponsors, Wargaming, they had a film crew come along, and they were going to produce a short film, which never was produced. But I was looking at some of the B roll footage that they were showing from the flight and they had interviewed a woman in Krasnoyarsk and she was a young lady at the time and she's obviously in her 90s now, when they interviewed her, but she recalls the seeing the American planes coming in to Krasnoyarsk piloted by the Soviet pilots. And so these were, you know, Bell P-39 Airacobras and P-63 King Cobras and North American B-25, Mitchell bombers and, you know, a wide variety of different aircraft that we had given to the Soviets. But anyway, she recalls one pilot in particular who got out after just a really horrible flight coming across Siberia in the winter. He basically said that, you know, he wanted nothing more to do with ferrying airplanes across Siberia, he'd rather be sent to the battle fields rather than ferry airplanes across Siberia, in those weather conditions. So, you know, when you sit back and think, you know, from a pilot's perspective, you think, “well, flying an airplane is not that difficult”. But when it gets so bad in those kinds of conditions, that you'd rather go into battle where people are shooting at you...rather than staying in an aircraft flying across the open country, you know, and the weather conditions are so bad that you'd rather be set into battle than fly that airplane...that's an incredible story!

-Actually, I came across another story in the same region in the Krasnoyarsk region, and the north, which is in the Arctic area. It's it's pretty big region  that goes all the way up to the Arctic Ocean. And that's a story I I wrote about for CNN a couple of years ago, because an old airliner,  actually a C-47 or the Soviet version of the C-47, I think it's called the Li-2, which is basically like a C-47. And it crash-landed somewhere in the tundra in the Arctic, that was right after the war, I think it was in the late 40s. There was a whole story about how these passengers were saved after like one or two weeks there. That aircraft was actually salvaged. And it's now at a museum in Krasnoyarsk. So there's a whole story about how they recovered this aircraft just a couple of years ago.

-That's correct. And I want to add to that just a little bit, too, because I think that, you know, we have, I want to say that the ALSIB 2015 project was probably something that, you know, inspired and I think motivated the investors and I think the Russian Geographic Society were a part of that recovery effort if I recall, but I think this whole ALSIB 2015 project because of the work, you know, the notoriety that it got in Russia, inspired some investors to come in and help fund that expedition to go in there and pull that airplane out. And I think it was a marvelous recovery effort. And the nice thing about...if there's any nice thing about recovering an airplane that crashed up there, the conditions are so dry and cold that the aircraft generally is still at really good condition with very little corrosion and so the restorations or you know, restorations are much easier than they are trying to restore something that's been sitting in the bottom of a lake or down the bottom of the ocean. But the point I was gonna make is that one of the American crew, a father and son team, who actually owned one of the C-47s that went across the ALSIB route in 2015, as part of our project are Frank and Glen moss and they actually owned one of those C-47s and they sold it to Rusavia for the project, but Rusavia retained them to help you know, train their crews and to help assist with the flying duties, you know, going across because this is a relatively new aircraft for Rusavia’s pilots, so they hired Glenn and Frank to be part of those crews to make sure that they were being being flown safely. But, anyway, so with Glenn's expertise in DC-3s here in the United States, and the C-47, he was actually part of that recovery crew that went up there and pulled that airplane out. And so he's got definitely, you know, got some really great stories to tell him sure about that. And it was a remarkable recovery. 

-I didn't know there was this link with your project, your own man and that recovery expedition, that Yeah, I had the chance to research and I got some pictures from the Russian Geographical Society, that was in charge of coordinating this whole effort. So, yeah, I'm gonna post a link to this article as well on the podcast notes so that everyone can see what we're talking about. Very good! So yeah, so we will have to wait to 2021, then to see the completion of this route, this expedition But then we are going to be able to just watch it on our screens…

-Yeah. That's correct. Miquel, I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about this project. And you know, we were, we're very steadfast in our approach where we don't give up on this thing. I mean, I think a lot of people at this point after so many years would have just said, you know, this is too difficult. And, you know, we've got the credibility and we have the experience to be able to do this. And now the only thing that's really standing in our way is just getting support, financial support, for the project. And one of the things that we've done to help create awareness of the project, rather than, you know, just trying to rely on press releases and a couple of media blips, we've actually started a podcast as well and it's called “Warplanes to Siberia, flying the routeW and We're hoping to be able to watch that some time around the end of this month. And actually, we're going to target our fourth of July holiday perhaps to go ahead and launch it. And the idea behind the podcast is, is we're having discussions about this project, just like we are today. But we're going a little bit deeper into the history of the Alaska-Siberia air route and the lend lease program between the United States and the Soviet Union. And we're talking about the modern day cooperation too, between us and the Russian government. And so I think the listeners out there, you know, will find that podcast informative, and we certainly hope that anybody that's listening out there who is interested in this subject, you know, please feel free to contact us if you're interested in supporting and particularly for the corporate sponsors out there. We really hope you'll consider coming on and we'd love to talk to you about The name and brand recognition that of course, you're going to get as being a part of this project and documentary film. So we're really hopeful that people will join and help us to bring this untold story of world war two aviation history. Let's bring it out there and let's make it a part of the permanent record now instead of some obscure story that rarely gets told.

-Yes, definitely, can you please, remind us where people can find you? It’s Bravo369.org, right?

-Yes, bravo369.org and we also have another project website called warplanestosiberia.com

-Is this where you are going to post the podcast?

-We are going to post the podcast there and possibly will get posted on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Pstoify, all those major things…And I know craig has been sitting back there patiently waiting, I don't know if he got hie audio back but i feel l i got some of his thunder away...Craig?

-I am back and hopefully you can hear me just fine…

-Yeah

-One of the abilities of this project is the availability to connect with people...people in the US, in Canada and in Russia. And I have had the chance to speak at universities in the US and Russia and share the story of lend lease and the ALSIB. Previously you were talking about Krasnoyarsk and when I was doing a presentation in San Diego, California, a few years back, there were several Russian students in the audience and one came to me and told me the story of remembering her grandmother telling the story of American planes coming into Krasnoyarsk and she didn't understand, she could not fully conceive why American airplanes were coming into Krasnoyarsk and when she heard your presentation she said “thank you” and started crying because it brought the story to fruition... and this is just a small example, Even when we were in Great Falls, Montana, for this airshow and we had ambassador Kislyak, from Washington DC and he says “I knew of the cooperation between the US and the Soviet Union during the war years, but I didn't know that Great Falls, Montana, was the staging area in the US”...so it's just the tip of the iceberg, and there are so many rich and interesting stories that need to be told and this is the time to do that.

-Yes definitely and i will share the link to your site, bravo369.org...and then there is alsib2020.com as well?

-No, that one has been transferred to warplanestosiberia.com

-Ok, I will post on the show notes then, and hopefully you will get more people interested, sponsors, adn people interested in this episode of WW2...And looking forward to watching your documentary!

-Thank you. Miquel, for having us on the podcast. And good luck with your podcast. I see you are new to this podcast things as well, we are new to the podcasting realm as well! But it is sure a lot of fun and it is sure a great thing you are doing to keep your listeners engaged, as I have enjoying your podcast, been listening to it, how your are talking about different aspects of commercial aviation on an international level, it's really great to listen to it

-Yes, and I look forward to listening to yours as well, when is it going to be out?

-We are aiming to release it as early as the end of this month, but as we have the Independence Day holiday, 4th of july, and it looks like a great time. We’ll be announcing that soon, we do have a social media presence on facebook and twitter and you can link to that through ou sites and we’ll putting out some announcements

-Looking forward! And thank you so much for being on the show today!

-Thank you! It was really great to finally get to talk with you, I know we’ve corresponding by email for over a year now,  back and forth and I really appreciate your continued interest in our project and we are looking forward to coming along and report as e go along this incredible journey we are going to take next year

-Hopefully! Thanks! Bye!

-Thanks! Bye!

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